Jonathan Drake

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Posts by Jonathan Drake

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  182

  The Case for Theism

  by FusionTheism in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "theism" here means "belief in a god" or "the worldview that an intelligent designer created the universe and life.

  " ("god" here means a being with a mind who initiated and/or wound-up the universe, and designed life on earth)the most common claim that i see atheists making on twitter, is that "no evidence" exists in support of belief in a god.this post will remove any excuse atheists have for claiming "no evidence exists" in support of an initiator.

  atheists can still reject this evidence as "weak," but they cannot truthfully say it does not exist.now, it is true that we do not have "observable, repeatable, falsifiable, empirical, scientific" evidence conclusively proving that an initiator exists, but we do have many lines of philisophical, experiential, and logical evidence.and... here... we... go:1:) many leading scientists, including stephen hawking, say that the space-time-matter universe had a beginning at the singularity/big bang.

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  Jonathan Drake

  I admit I am godless!
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  182

  The Case for Theism

  by FusionTheism in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "theism" here means "belief in a god" or "the worldview that an intelligent designer created the universe and life.

  " ("god" here means a being with a mind who initiated and/or wound-up the universe, and designed life on earth)the most common claim that i see atheists making on twitter, is that "no evidence" exists in support of belief in a god.this post will remove any excuse atheists have for claiming "no evidence exists" in support of an initiator.

  atheists can still reject this evidence as "weak," but they cannot truthfully say it does not exist.now, it is true that we do not have "observable, repeatable, falsifiable, empirical, scientific" evidence conclusively proving that an initiator exists, but we do have many lines of philisophical, experiential, and logical evidence.and... here... we... go:1:) many leading scientists, including stephen hawking, say that the space-time-matter universe had a beginning at the singularity/big bang.

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  Jonathan Drake

  cofty - Once again so many people are hung up on the word "proof". It has no place in this sort of conversation. It belongs to mathematicians.
  

  Yes, I see I actually misused "proof" too. I should have said "evidence"
• 
  182

  The Case for Theism

  by FusionTheism in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "theism" here means "belief in a god" or "the worldview that an intelligent designer created the universe and life.

  " ("god" here means a being with a mind who initiated and/or wound-up the universe, and designed life on earth)the most common claim that i see atheists making on twitter, is that "no evidence" exists in support of belief in a god.this post will remove any excuse atheists have for claiming "no evidence exists" in support of an initiator.

  atheists can still reject this evidence as "weak," but they cannot truthfully say it does not exist.now, it is true that we do not have "observable, repeatable, falsifiable, empirical, scientific" evidence conclusively proving that an initiator exists, but we do have many lines of philisophical, experiential, and logical evidence.and... here... we... go:1:) many leading scientists, including stephen hawking, say that the space-time-matter universe had a beginning at the singularity/big bang.

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  Jonathan Drake

  
  

  What difference do personal religious beliefs make when it comes to examining the actual science?

  Francis Collins is perhaps one of the greatest medical / DNA scientists the world has ever known, and he's a huge believer in Yahweh.

  Oh shit, I'd love to answer this question for you! I have to! Here's what difference it makes:

  Its the difference between hundreds of thousands of people suffering and dying ...

  and not.

  thats the difference it makes.

  The actual science of stem cell research, as just one example, would effectively end many diseases and render unnecessary organ waiting lists. Instead people are suffering and dying because it's banned. It's banned purely for religious reasons - those being the absurd idea that 150 unassigned cells make up a living human life.

  This is just one example of exactly how religious beliefs make a difference when examining actual science - because they kill people.

  Another example - blood transfusions. Religious belief vs actual science result in...

  
  Mother and child die because of religious beliefs over actual science
• 
  182

  The Case for Theism

  by FusionTheism in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "theism" here means "belief in a god" or "the worldview that an intelligent designer created the universe and life.

  " ("god" here means a being with a mind who initiated and/or wound-up the universe, and designed life on earth)the most common claim that i see atheists making on twitter, is that "no evidence" exists in support of belief in a god.this post will remove any excuse atheists have for claiming "no evidence exists" in support of an initiator.

  atheists can still reject this evidence as "weak," but they cannot truthfully say it does not exist.now, it is true that we do not have "observable, repeatable, falsifiable, empirical, scientific" evidence conclusively proving that an initiator exists, but we do have many lines of philisophical, experiential, and logical evidence.and... here... we... go:1:) many leading scientists, including stephen hawking, say that the space-time-matter universe had a beginning at the singularity/big bang.

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• 

  Jonathan Drake

  Jonathan Drake,

  I don't give a damn whether we call this "Something" God or Allah or Jehovah or Flying Spaghetti Monster.

  Why are YOU so hung up on labels???

  Well you did entitle the thread the case for theism. I guess I just assumed you meant a personal God and not just "something".

  i apologize for taking your words at face value.
• 
  182

  The Case for Theism

  by FusionTheism in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "theism" here means "belief in a god" or "the worldview that an intelligent designer created the universe and life.

  " ("god" here means a being with a mind who initiated and/or wound-up the universe, and designed life on earth)the most common claim that i see atheists making on twitter, is that "no evidence" exists in support of belief in a god.this post will remove any excuse atheists have for claiming "no evidence exists" in support of an initiator.

  atheists can still reject this evidence as "weak," but they cannot truthfully say it does not exist.now, it is true that we do not have "observable, repeatable, falsifiable, empirical, scientific" evidence conclusively proving that an initiator exists, but we do have many lines of philisophical, experiential, and logical evidence.and... here... we... go:1:) many leading scientists, including stephen hawking, say that the space-time-matter universe had a beginning at the singularity/big bang.

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• 

  Jonathan Drake

  Jonathan Drake,

  Stephen Hawking himself declares that if "Imaginary Time" ends up being false that means...

  "There would have to be something outside the universe, to wind up the clockwork, and set the universe going."

  This doesn't matter. You cannot take the mans work and just assume he's talking about God. I promise he isn't, as he's elsewhere stated his opinions on god. Further "IF" imaginary time were false and that does mean something outside wound up the universe, that doesn't mean it's god that did it.

  Even more, if this did prove God existed (I emphasize if) all itwould mean is that he's a malevolent piece of shit who wound it up and just watched every one suffer and die. Your not really making a good argument and it's because you're taking something that's about one thing in particular and desperately trying to make it about something else and misuse your mental capacity to twist it into some pro-God farce that it was not intended to be. If hawking saw this thread he'd shred your entire op.
• 
  182

  The Case for Theism

  by FusionTheism in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "theism" here means "belief in a god" or "the worldview that an intelligent designer created the universe and life.

  " ("god" here means a being with a mind who initiated and/or wound-up the universe, and designed life on earth)the most common claim that i see atheists making on twitter, is that "no evidence" exists in support of belief in a god.this post will remove any excuse atheists have for claiming "no evidence exists" in support of an initiator.

  atheists can still reject this evidence as "weak," but they cannot truthfully say it does not exist.now, it is true that we do not have "observable, repeatable, falsifiable, empirical, scientific" evidence conclusively proving that an initiator exists, but we do have many lines of philisophical, experiential, and logical evidence.and... here... we... go:1:) many leading scientists, including stephen hawking, say that the space-time-matter universe had a beginning at the singularity/big bang.

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  Jonathan Drake

  Fusion I do know how to use a dictionary, and your definition from your source states that theism is a belief in an immanent God. Immanent means that the God is inherent in and has something to do with the world.

  1

  :indwelling, inherent <beauty is not something imposed but something immanent — Anthony Burgess>

  
  

  Theism is the belief in a God that transcends our world but is still immanent (has something to do with) our world. Deism is the belief in a God that transcends our world and has nothing to do with it.
• 
  182

  The Case for Theism

  by FusionTheism in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "theism" here means "belief in a god" or "the worldview that an intelligent designer created the universe and life.

  " ("god" here means a being with a mind who initiated and/or wound-up the universe, and designed life on earth)the most common claim that i see atheists making on twitter, is that "no evidence" exists in support of belief in a god.this post will remove any excuse atheists have for claiming "no evidence exists" in support of an initiator.

  atheists can still reject this evidence as "weak," but they cannot truthfully say it does not exist.now, it is true that we do not have "observable, repeatable, falsifiable, empirical, scientific" evidence conclusively proving that an initiator exists, but we do have many lines of philisophical, experiential, and logical evidence.and... here... we... go:1:) many leading scientists, including stephen hawking, say that the space-time-matter universe had a beginning at the singularity/big bang.

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  Jonathan Drake

  "All the evidence seems to indicate, that the universe has not existed forever, but that it had a beginning, about 15 billion years ago. This is probably the most remarkable discovery of modern cosmology."

  "Another attempt to avoid a beginning to time, was the suggestion, that maybe all the galaxies didn't meet up at a single point in the past. [...] However, their claim was proved wrong, by a number of theorems by Roger Penrose and myself."

  "If one can determine that there is enough matter in the universe, to focus our past light cone, one can then apply the singularity theorems, to show that time must have a beginning. [...]"

  "One can then apply the theorem of Penrose and myself, to show that time must have a beginning."

  If I'm not mistaken, I believe you have just created a straw man out of Steven hawkings lecture "the beginning of time". It seems to me you are trying to make the beginning of time have something to do with God, and it absolutely doesn't.

  
  Did you copy and paste from this lecture?
• 
  182

  The Case for Theism

  by FusionTheism in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "theism" here means "belief in a god" or "the worldview that an intelligent designer created the universe and life.

  " ("god" here means a being with a mind who initiated and/or wound-up the universe, and designed life on earth)the most common claim that i see atheists making on twitter, is that "no evidence" exists in support of belief in a god.this post will remove any excuse atheists have for claiming "no evidence exists" in support of an initiator.

  atheists can still reject this evidence as "weak," but they cannot truthfully say it does not exist.now, it is true that we do not have "observable, repeatable, falsifiable, empirical, scientific" evidence conclusively proving that an initiator exists, but we do have many lines of philisophical, experiential, and logical evidence.and... here... we... go:1:) many leading scientists, including stephen hawking, say that the space-time-matter universe had a beginning at the singularity/big bang.

  1. 
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• 

  Jonathan Drake

  "Theism" here means "belief in a god" or "the worldview that an intelligent designer created the universe and life." ("God" here means a being with a mind who initiated and/or wound-up the universe, and designed life on earth)
  

  You can't just change the definition of theism to fit your own ends.

  theism isn't merely the belief in a god, it's the belief in a God that interacts and takes an interest in our world. conversely, deism is the belief in a God that does not take an interest or interact.

  As to your assertions about the accuracy of prophecy regarding Jesus, you are not providing any of the following:

  1. Proof Jesus ever having lived to begin with.

  2. Explanation for why the gospel accounts contradict one another.

  3. Explanation of why no historians of the time reported any of the crucifixion miracles (earthquake, darkening of sky, resurrection of saints upon Jesus death - seriously no one else but a bible writer can confirm this?)

  4. Explanation of why the writers of the gospels took so long to write down their contradicting stories about a man who probably never lived after it all supposedly happened.

  What's more, you're falling into the rut of using the bible to prove itself by using scripture from Daniel. This proves nothing but the probability that the reason the bible writers took so long to write the gospels is because they had to tailor them to fit. <--- something many agree is more and more likely as time goes on.
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  34

  There is no right and wrong

  by campaign of hate in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i am a little tangled up in this train of thought, as it can go quite deep.. as a jw, albeit fully awake, we are taught that there is right and a wrong.

  smoking is wrong.

  going on the ministry is right.

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  Jonathan Drake

  In any event, regardless of how politics and morality interchange (a subject id love to read more about), my earlier posts stand to demonstrate that if religion affects morality it's only to poison it. What little good religion has done for morality may easily be attributed to our altruistic tendencies. But I see no reason to do this, let religion have what little good it's done because whatever positive morality may have come of religion you can garuntee it is drowning in an ocean of injustice and atrocity from the same source.

  original point and back on topic: morality is an evolutionary development that does not rely at all on religion.
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  34

  There is no right and wrong

  by campaign of hate in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i am a little tangled up in this train of thought, as it can go quite deep.. as a jw, albeit fully awake, we are taught that there is right and a wrong.

  smoking is wrong.

  going on the ministry is right.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jonathan Drake

  I believe Lincoln's letter speaks for itself. He was politically for the Union at all cost but personally against slavery. His personal belief did not change his political aim or belief.
  

  But a political aim of his politcal party was to abolish slavery. 😂

  and they wanted to abolish it because of their belief it was wrong. 😂